The following is a conversation taking place between Carol Cameron and Shrila Prabhupada from 1975 about the need for understanding that God is a person as a prerequisite for sincere emotion to arise which leads to a genuine and sustained surrender.
Carol Cameron: How can ignorance be removed?
Prabhupada: The ignorant people can also learn from the learned. If you have got this idea that creator is impersonal, that means you are not a learned. You have no knowledge. And this is the simple answer. As soon as you say "creator," He has so many qualities. The bell... Suppose I am ringing. Now, when the spring is loose [rings bell], it does not sound. So others may not know, but one who has created -- "Oh, the spring is loose. Now we wind it again." That means I know, ins and outs and everything. That is creator. So if one is cognizant of everything, how He can be impersonal? What is this philosophy? Hmm? Answer. You are philosopher.
Amogha: He says if the creator is..., if one is cognizant of everything, then how can He not be a person? The creator is cognizant of everything. So if He is cognizant, how can He not be a person?
Carol Cameron: Well, He would incorporate personal attributes...
Prabhupada: Hmm? She says "He."
Carol Cameron: ...not be governed by them.
Prabhupada: She says "He," but He is impersonal. [laughter]
Carol Cameron: Yes. [laughs] It's the intellect and the emotion.
Prabhupada: How vague ideas. And they are passing on philosophy. "He" contradicts. You say "He." And again He is impersonal.
Carol Cameron: At the emotional level it's a very personal...
Prabhupada: Why should you emotional? You are a philosopher. You should talk very nicely.
Carol Cameron: Talk?
Amogha: He said, why be emotional? You are a philosopher, so talk very nicely.
Carol Cameron: Oh. [surprised] I don't philosophize.
Amogha: What she just said was that He is impersonal, but He incorporates personal features.
Carol Cameron: If God is in everything, then the personal attributes must be part of Him, it, whatever.
Amogha: She says personal attributes are part of God.
Carol Cameron: But God is not just limited to...
Prabhupada: You have no idea of God.
Carol Cameron: No. I don't think...
Prabhupada: He must be person. As soon as you say "He knows everything," "He creates," and so many other things, then these are all personal. You say "He." "He." These are all personal.
Carol Cameron: This is only our idea of God, though, not necessarily...
Prabhupada: That means you have no clear idea of God. You have vague idea. So you have to learn what is God.
Carol Cameron: You think you can know the nature of God?
Amogha: She says do you think you can know the nature of God?
Prabhupada: Yes. You can know also.
Carol Cameron: In an intellectual way?
Prabhupada: You can know also.
Carol Cameron: You might know something in your heart, but not be able to express it.
Prabhupada: Why not express it? You can express it. If whatever is within your heart, if you cannot express, then you are not perfect. You must express what is within your heart very clearly. Not that I have got something within my heart and I cannot express. That means my knowledge is imperfect.
Carol Cameron: So often our understanding moves sort of separately, the emotional, the heart.
Prabhupada: Emotion is not required for scientific knowledge. Emotion is not... Useless. It must be factual. Emotion is no use. Emotion is useful in high, ecstatic love. Not for scientific study of something you require emotion. No.
Carol Cameron: But in the bhakti way of doing things, this emotion and love are very closely entwined, aren't they?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is higher stage. Not in the beginning. In the beginning devotion means I should be devoted to you. Why should I be devoted to you unless you are worthy? Just like Krsna says, "You surrender unto Me." So unless I understand that Krsna is worth for my surrendering, He is worthy, why shall I surrender to Krsna? If I demand, immediately you have come, that you surrender, would you like to do that?
Carol Cameron: To surrender?
Prabhupada: If I ask you that "You surrender." I am meeting you for the first time. Would you like to surrender?
Carol Cameron: Yes.
Prabhupada: I don't think. [laughter]
Carol Cameron: To want to and to do it is different.
Prabhupada: No, unless you are fully aware of my abilities,
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Prabhupada: ...qualities, why should you surrender? [indistinct] So before surrendering, one has to study the person where he is going to surrender. Then he surrenders. That is real surrender. And blindly surrender, that will not stay. So our first business is to surrender to God; therefore we must know what is God. Then you must surrender. And the emotion is good. That means you are advanced. If you understand that "God is giving us everything," so that emotion is very good. If one from the very beginning becomes emotional, "Oh, God is so kind. God is so great that He is giving us everything, our necessities. I must serve Him," this emotion is very good. But for ordinary man, this emotion does not come. He wants to study what is God. Then when he fully understands, "Oh, God is so great," then that emotion is very nice. That is genuine emotion. Otherwise emotion is sentiment. That will not stay. That will not endure. It is temporary.
Carol Cameron: Would the intellect be helpful in knowing God?
Prabhupada: Yes. Unless you have got the necessary intellect, then you are no better than the animals. The animals have no intellect to understand God, but the human being has got that intellect. That is the distinction between animal and human being.
Room Conversation with Carol Cameron – May 10, 1975, Perth